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 One night in Gorky Park !!!

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BrummieBob

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PostSubject: One night in Gorky Park !!!   Fri Feb 27, 2009 1:50 am

Few things.

I expect/demand Villa put as much effort into winning games as I do in working hard to be able to cover the cost of following "my" team.

It's not a lot to ask............. it appears it is.

Yes MON and Randy et al have improved this Club no end but that does not put them above critical comment.


Thursday and the whole preparation/build up was a disgrace.

I would be a liar if I didn't say I still had a dream that the kids etc would pull it off and I would end up with egg on my face for my thoughts

It wasn't to be. I slag off other teams for pulling off the same stunt as Villa did Thursday and I refuse to accept it from my team. If Martin doesn't think that he has the resources to field his strongest team in a important competition that despite what Sky and the Premier League say then approach his bosses and demand those resources are made available. When I need something at work I just ask the boss if I can have it. If the request is possible/reasonable and warranted then I get it.

Do it Martin

No amount of "spin" will cover up what as I said before is a disgraceful episode
Even Martin appears “uncomfortable” when explaining his actions

Dan went to Hamburg and watched the "reserves" lose heavily. I would have been fuming if that had happened to me.

Consider this:

Full Team for the Home Leg 3 days before a important top of the league clash against Chelsea. (helps sell tickets I suppose)

Reserve Team 3 day before a game against a team from the lower echelons of the Premier League.

I'm sorry it just doesn't make sense.

I remember a game against Man Ure just before Xmas in DOL’s last season here and he enraged me by playing a single striker against them in his team selection.
Here’s the difference MON has done that and I have accepted it as part of the bigger picture (wait for the transfer window we were told) but I am feeling I have been mugged.

I suspect that should we muck it up against Stoke on Sunday then Vila Park and the various forums etc will be an interesting place to be in the next few days.

In the words of the advert.

Match Ticket £8
Travel £ 995
Food and Drink £200
Credit Card bill arriving 28 days later “what the hell was that all about”

Remember Martin we are watching. We tolerate and we accept but even the loyalist of Villa fans can be pushed too far.

We ain’t fickle and as you know do right by us and the adulation follows but muck us about and you might see a side of us all that you might be just a tad uncomfortable with.
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hulkamania



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PostSubject: Re: One night in Gorky Park !!!   Fri Feb 27, 2009 2:59 am

I think the difference is that if our first choice 11 had got a result against Chelsea i dont see there would of been any problem in them going to Moscow. But the team against Chelsea did look very leggy and tired which is why O'neill took the step of resting them for the second leg. United, Arsenal, Liverpool and Chelsea all at some point in the season rest there best players. United are different in as much as they have very very good players willing to sit on there bench waiting for there chance to play. We aren't at that level yet. But to get to that level we need Champions League qualification. As far as i can remember the aim for Randy and O'neill was to get this club into the top 4 and secure Champions League football. And with that the trophies will start to come. Keep the faith guys. We cant complain at how our club is being run can we? Through the dark days of the Ellis era we dreamed of having a Randy Lerner as an owner. We dreamed of having O'neill as our manager. Well now we have got them both. Keep the faith
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Tauntonvilla

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PostSubject: Re: One night in Gorky Park !!!   Fri Feb 27, 2009 4:11 am

You cant just go from not playing in europe for 10 years, to playing CL football. This seasons UEFA cup should have been a good learning curve for us all.

For me we've learn't absolutly sod all. The players have hardly played, the supporters, it's created nothing but arguments/discontent. How to put the price of programmes and scarfs up...ok that we've got sussed.

Learn to walk before you can run !! CL football for us next year will be way too soon believe me ! 2 Seasons in the UEFA i think would have been just right. I dont think, (should it come) the CL will be the holy grail all these youngsters think it will be. To simply drop every other competetion to secure our place, to me seems barmy !!
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Weston Pete

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PostSubject: Re: One night in Gorky Park !!!   Fri Feb 27, 2009 7:57 am

...."Remember Martin we are watching"

&

..."We are not fickle"

&

..."you might see a side of us all that you might be just a tad uncomfortable with."


What the fuck is going on!!!!!!

HELLO anyone out there!!!!! scratch

(Bob i aint having a go at you here mate, this is Villa fans opinion in general!!!)

Number fucking 1. Villa fans are the most fickle fans in the country, possibly in europe, i hate to say it but we ARE end of discussion!!!!!!! How can anyone dare complain about what Martin and Randy have done for this club, in 3 years they have done more than Ellis and Co ever did in soding 25 years or however long he was with us!!!

Number 2. Does no-one actually realise or are people so god dam blind to see how far we have come in such a short space of time, if it wasnt for O'Neil being in charge we would be in the Championship right now, maybe even lower!!!

Number 3. The ONLY reason we are doing so well is because we have such a GREAT manager, there is no-one else out there even half as good who would even think about coming to Villa!! If you all piss O'Neil off he WILL walk, no question, then where the hell would we be. I'll tell you where we would be, about 16th place in the league, doing sweet FA like we've done for the past 20 years with a manager who'll be sacked in the coming years to be replaced by someone on par!!!

...Anyone remember those days, Ellis, O'Leary, Taylor, Gregory the list is enless, why is it that when the good times finally start to arrive, do Villa fans STILL have something to moan about.....oh thats right, its cos we're

FICKLE!!!!!!!!!!

Unless we come together and start backing the managers decisions WE will be the ones to lose out when O'Neil walks!!!

What people have to realise is that this once big, proud, successful club, aint that anymore, and it aint been big for 20 or so years!!!Its our job to back the club and put it back on the map where we all know it can belong!!!!

Up The Villa!!!
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hulkamania



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PostSubject: Re: One night in Gorky Park !!!   Fri Feb 27, 2009 9:18 am

Pete you're my Hero!! I love you
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Tauntonvilla

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PostSubject: Re: One night in Gorky Park !!!   Fri Feb 27, 2009 3:06 pm

I just hope we beat Stoke sunday, or the shit will hit the fan. Freind of mine paid £1500 for the moscow trip, and isnt happy !!

We could have had a great run in the league cup/FA cup and UEFA cup.....so i aint happy.

MON you've got 15...no call it 20 minuets on sunday to get us a goal, or im going to boooooooooooo for the rest of the game !!
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caveman villa



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PostSubject: Re: One night in Gorky Park !!!   Fri Feb 27, 2009 3:20 pm

Don

come on mate that is a bit strong!!

Yes i am a little miffed at the team selection on thursday!!!

But and it is a big but!!

Which would you rather:

1 Finish higher in the league than Arsenal and claim the champions league qualifiy spot on offer for 4th

or

2 go a little further in the FA or UEFA cup and be even more disapointed further on down the line when we have suffered injuries or "burn out" because the players have played 50 games and there are still 10 to go in the league and we still get nothing in the cups??? And we dont even finish 5th because the players can't play anymore and there is no one to back them up??

I have to admit i have been disappointed with our lack of transfer activity in Jan and in some part the quality of some of the players brought in, in september was not great!!

So all in all I have to say, we back our manager. THIS IS WHAT HE IS PAID TO DO, and support our club THIS IS WHAT WE PAY TO DO..

UP THE VILLA

ps small rant over
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Tauntonvilla

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PostSubject: Re: One night in Gorky Park !!!   Fri Feb 27, 2009 3:42 pm

You say "go a little further". We COULD have won either.. For me, (and believe me i know how far we've come, on and off the pitch) MON has put his head on the line with this. If we end up outside the top 4 this season, heads could well roll.

I dont believe qualifying for this seasons CL was/is the be all and end all. Another season in the UEFA wouldnt have hurt anybody. We have and still will be able to purchase quality without the prospect of CL football. Laursen,Davis,Bouma,Yound,Carew.......ermmmmm Sidwell Razz etc etc. Okay we may lose barry...big deal !!

Opinion on the goings of this week are split 50-50 whatever fansite you go on. Im on the "really pissed off side" (incase you hadn't noticed).

Also i dont buy the "Look at the money it brings" side. Were told over and over by "The Villa", money is no object..

I am and will be for a good while pissed off about this week, however im nearing my time to clock out...so im off now, we'll finish this on a later date....UTV !
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hulkamania



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PostSubject: Re: One night in Gorky Park !!!   Fri Feb 27, 2009 4:01 pm

Barry is as you quite rightly said after the Moscow game "easily our best player". If we lose Barry at the end of the season who will be next to go? Ashley, Gabby, Davies? Football moved on and left Villa behind when we had Ellis at the helm. Now we're starting to catch up with Randy and Martin in charge. Surely we aren't going to start booing our team are we? We all need to stick behind Villa. These are exciting times for us. One match doesn't change that. The bigger picture is there for us all to see. We find ourselves in year 3 of a 5year plan and we are doing fantastic. On and off the pitch. If at the end of the 5year plan we haven't achieved what we wanted then we can have a good old moan. But surely not now?.
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Tauntonvilla

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PostSubject: Re: One night in Gorky Park !!!   Fri Feb 27, 2009 4:11 pm

What 5 year plan. I've not heard anybody from villa mention a 5 year plan. If thats is the case we've still got 2 seasons to go !!

P.S im home now bounce
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hulkamania



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PostSubject: Re: One night in Gorky Park !!!   Fri Feb 27, 2009 4:42 pm

From what i understood when Randy and Martin took over. Villa had a 5 year plan to get into the top 4 of the league and into the Champions League. There have been alot of things need changing at Villa to bring us back to being a major player. And slowly but surely we are getting there. Rome wasn't built in a day
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Tauntonvilla

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PostSubject: Re: One night in Gorky Park !!!   Sat Feb 28, 2009 5:04 am

hulkamania wrote:
From what i understood when Randy and Martin took over. Villa had a 5 year plan to get into the top 4 of the league and into the Champions League. There have been alot of things need changing at Villa to bring us back to being a major player. And slowly but surely we are getting there. Rome wasn't built in a day

I've not heard Randy or MON mention either..

I still feel really bitter about this. This could well be the final straw for me. You can shove your CL, top 4 and all the rest of the media hyped shite, i'm in the game of watching my team win games and trophies. When we as "A Team", field a team to lose a game, it's time to pack it all in, and start something new.. The time,effort and money (not mention of 16 days holiday this season), to follow the villa, and for what reason ?
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Weston Pete

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PostSubject: Re: One night in Gorky Park !!!   Sat Feb 28, 2009 12:23 pm

Sounds about right, typical Villa supporter mentallity, not happy unless we're moaning about this and that!!!

Jesus Christ, its sad but its the way football has gone, if your not in champions league your no-where, staying in the UEFA two seasons running will just mean we lose our top players and then its just a backwards step again!!

Martin WAS right to do what he did, maybe it was slightly drastic but then again who cares if we get 4th, our best players stay and we move on and upwards!!!

Oh and for the record, Dan is spot on, there is and always WAS a 5 year plan, and as far as im conerned and the club are concerned we are ahead of schedule and doing as our manager says


......"Just Fine"

The glory days are upon us once again, lets not as Villa fans blow it cos the only ones to lose out will be us!!!!!!
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BrummieBob

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PostSubject: Re: One night in Gorky Park !!!   Sat Feb 28, 2009 1:59 pm

Pete,perhaps that's the thinking of us Old 'uns.

We were brought up on the ethos of winning things.

Being 4th doesn't give you a "Honour" just an entry form.

Being 4th in the league might bring financial rewards and the "kudos" with the media but nothing to etch in gold leaf on the "Club Honours" board in the boardroom.

People talk about Man Ure's 2 wins in the Champions League but nobody ever talks about the times they didn't although they qualified for the Champions League. They only add on the 1968 win to make the total more impressive.

Nobody remembers 4th 3rd 2nd only the winner.

Look at Stuart on the bus the other week Arsenal,Man Utd ,Chelsea and his team.............Blackburn the only "Winners" of the Premier League and he was proud of it. I don't want to shout but "we finshed 4th" I want to shout "We won it !!"

Books in the Future will say Season 2008-2009 Premier League Winners Man Utd and we might get a passing mention that we qualified for the Champions League but we would have to win the Champions League to gain any credence

It would have been nice to have said UEFA CUp Winners Season 2008-2009 Aston Villa but we will always wonder what might have been had we not thrown the towel in like we did.

In it to win it is a good phrase, but we were in the UEFA Cup now we ain't and it hurts, when we were knocked out by Athletico Madrid it was easier to take because the team had gone down fighting as it were, but this episode against Moscow is a gut wrenching twist against all that I have been brought up on.


Time is a great healer and over the years the ups and down of being a Villa Fan are well documented. The dark days of the 3rd Division are a mirror image of what is happening now.A new dawn was also the catchphrase then but to get back to the the top we had to progress back slowly. It took 2 years to get out of the 3rd and 4 to get out of the 2nd and a further 6 to win the league. The year after that is folklore and is certainly possible under our current regime but the "too much too soon" is always a nagging doubt. Uefa would have been nice and I think it is a credit to all concerned we are actually going for the Champions League Place but to see the pictures of the skipper of Aston Villa lifting the UEFA Cup on a balmy night in Istanbul in May 2009 is a better thought than reading a league table in the same month that says "Oh.... and Aston Villa qualified for a Champions League place."


I don't agree with the reasons behind it , yet you do Pete and that's OK with me. You and Martin O Neil might be right. I might be wrong and in the future nothing would give me greater pleasure than admitting to you that I was wrong but please appreciate that it's hard for people like me and Don to understand the reasons.
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Tauntonvilla

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PostSubject: Re: One night in Gorky Park !!!   Sat Feb 28, 2009 4:21 pm

You're my hero Bob I love you

Bring me any evidance of the club or MON mentioning the "5 year plan", and i'll give it some thought...

Pete, you're saying MON was right..Unfortunatly only 50% of polled villa fans agree with you. Its a 50-50 split, straight down the middle, feeling is running high, in both camps. I have a feeling things could get a little heated at villa park tomorrow, should we not perform well.

If we deserve 4th, we'll get it. i for one dont think were ready for it, and i certainly dont think it will be the holy grail some of you think it will be !!
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hulkamania



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PostSubject: Re: One night in Gorky Park !!!   Sat Feb 28, 2009 10:17 pm

I think you've hit the nail on the head there Bob. The younger generation have been brought up on Champions League football. Which is what football is all about now. As Pete said if you aren't in the Champions League you're nowhere. Its sad but its a fact of modern day football. That doesn't mean to say that we dont want Villa to win every match and win every Cup going. But its probably easier for us to accept that going out to Moscow with a weakened team was the best option. I dont accept that we went out there to lose though. O'neill is a winner. No way would he put a team out to lose any match. I also dont agree with booing the team if we haven't scored after 20mins. We've seen this team make a new record this season in getting so may away wins on the bounce. Now that is impressive. This is the best team we've had at Villa Park for a good number of years and its getting better all the time. We as fans need to stick behind our team. Top 4 is now what we're aiming for. Whether or not everybody agrees with it doesn't matter. Its what we're going for and what O'neill has decided is best for the club. If we get Champions League next season we'll all have some rocking nights at Villa Park next season. Lets do what we do best and support our team 100% in the quest for top 4 which continues tomorrow with a very important match. Up the Villa
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Tauntonvilla

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PostSubject: Re: One night in Gorky Park !!!   Mon Mar 02, 2009 5:27 am

Champions League you're having a laugh !!

Good job my p.c wasnt on when i got back in a 00:30 last night...I was itching to post one on here. But im awake and sober now, and cant be asked to annoy you pair anymore. Were right, youre wrong, nuff said !!

To be serious for 1 minute though. For the 1st time yesterday we didnt seem united as 1. The team, management and the fans. And for me it showed. MON has one hell of a job to sort that out quickly, or the wheels will fall off the Aston Villa bus, and the egg on our face will be very difficult to remove !!
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hulkamania



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PostSubject: Re: One night in Gorky Park !!!   Mon Mar 02, 2009 7:39 am

I cant begin to tell you how gutted i am. I supported the decision to drop key players for the match in Moscow so we could push on in the league. And then they go and turn in a performance like that against easily the worst team to visit Villa Park this season. I personally feel like i've been left with egg on my face after yesterday. I just hope that the players realise the opportunity they have to get CL and i hope they dont bottle it. I dont want to witness my team falling away when they've done so so well. I'm still right about the players being dropped for Moscow though Razz
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PostSubject: Re: One night in Gorky Park !!!   Mon Mar 02, 2009 8:12 am

Some really good points made by everyone here.

my view? i think the villa fans love the club so much they forget its a business and its a calculated gamble with uefa cup, C/L is where the money and recognision comes from, so o'neil decides to put out a weaker side, not to lose but to keep his fairly small but very talented squad fresh which is a very good decision.
at the end of the day football is football so using uefa as a stepping stone is silly, villa have what it takes to keep their pace up but they do need to bring in some talent and having the recognision of having finished 4th and a C/L spot will keep and attract big names. alot of players leave their club because they are in search of C/L glory well how could they resist, if your a young player wanting glory, bags of talent and because villa have the drive and hunger they could easily get the names in.
people moan about villa but if i was a villa fan i'd be very exicted to see how villa grow after if all goes to plan this season. villa to step in to the big four for good? all depends on how they do in the champions league and the prem. villa are sitting on the fence in terms on making it big or getting raided by bigger clubs.
with o'neil at the wheel i think you boys are in safe hands.
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